After AFIT, Stan would owe a payback for school and might have to serve longer than his 5-year non-pilot ADSC. Incentives proposed to better retain, progress Army pilots Hes likely deployed at least 3 times, if not more, and has also spent many weeks TDY. Additionally, Cadets awarded Aviation Branch cannot participate in the Post of Choice program due to the inability to project requirements beyond flight school. USMA graduates accepting an appointment in the Regular Army incur a 5-year ADSO (10 USC 4348). I think it would be a great idea to leverage senior NCOs to enter pilot training with a waiver. This call to action comes amid challenging times, with many civilian airlines running on reduced flight schedules, said Chief Warrant Officer 5 Jon Koziol, the Armys command chief warrant officer to the aviation branch, during a Facebook livestream in June. (Yes, they say ADSO instead of ADSC because the Army and the Air Force refuse to do anything the same since they divorced back in 47.) Branching Aviation New Commitment | United States of America Service The first step the Army must take is to implement exit surveys for pilots to determine why they are leaving. The change comes as the cost and requirements for aircraft have increased across the board, Kearns said. That's the Army's ace in the hole. In regards to our flight school length, the AF and Navy actually won't recognize our flight school as a valid flight school for earning wings if we try to branch transfer as part of it which I do find amusing. The pay raise was the first in two decades to help balance pilot numbers at all ranks and stay competitive with the civilian market. The OPTEMPO is higher now than it was at the height of GWOT. SUPERSEDED AR 600-8-29, 02/25/2005; SUPERSEDED ARMY DIR 2019-30, 10/01/2019: Footnotes: https://armypubs.army.mil 03-APPLICABLE TO ARNG UNITS: Security Classification : UNCLASSIFIED: Dist Restriction Code : A APPROVED FOR PUBLIC RELEASE; DISTRIBUTION IS UNLIMITED: Changes Proponents of the new ADSO have suggested that the Army is catching up with the Air Force and the Navy by matching its pilot obligation with theirs. The root cause cited by those transitioning at various levels has related to toxic climates, mismanagement of professional profiles, quality of life, and unit culture. Again, 70 percent of Army pilots are warrant officers, while Air Force pilots are all officers. So 6 years from ALE graduation day? Stans family has still moved several timesboth as an engineer and as a pilot. With the ADSO now at 10 years after flight school, let's - reddit Initial assignments should be in table of organiza-tion and equipment (TOE) rather than table of distribution and allowances (TDA) units. Graduate School Program: Only 20% of the Aviation Branch allocation for ROTC and West Point can receive the Graduate School Option. Can you hear the roar of approval erupting from Army doctors across the globe serving out their decade plus commitments? Id always wanted to be a pilot and didnt know anything else, so I said the Doolie equivalent of Shut up and take my money! (There was a lot more Sir and Maam involved.) Yeah a lot of questions for those of us that came into this planning on a 6 year deal. He was thinking about turning down an Active Duty UPT slot and fulfilling the alternative 5-year USAFA non-pilot ADSC as an engineer or something, then pursuing a UPT slot with a Guard or Reserve unit. Just so we know I'm not a whiny do nothing: seven deployments, six combat for a total of 70 months and 66 months respectively. Officer Active Duty Service Obligation (ADSO) Guide Also if you have any time in the army at all, youll probably stay until 20 at that point. Age should be liftedI'm in my mid fifties and still fly helicopters (civilian market) for a living. I remember when they tried to get aviators out of the "sack" flight suit and into Nomex BDUs to make them more soldierly. Also get's a TS which is money, but dealing with army IT infrastructure is frustrating. army aviation 10 year adso - kestonrocks.com I'm not ignoring anything that has been posted within this thread -- again, it's all been awesome -- but I want to feel as sure as possible that the opinions expressed here are an accurate assessment of the average Army Aviation experience. The US Army recently changed its aviation Active Duty Service Obligation from 8 to 10 years and created an absolute uproar. I remember similar drama during my Fourth Class (freshman) year at the, Now that Im older and wiser, one of my many. . There are also a lot of great flying opportunities that you can only do on Active Duty. Even during a deployment when demand for flight hours was high, the more senior Warrant Officers were flying double that of the more junior pilots. 10 year ADSO is official 78 212 212 comments Best Add a Comment awestm11 3 yr. ago "Army Aviators don't want to stay in the Army even though we pay them less, deploy them more, and treat them worse than their peers in other branches and civilian careers, so we will just force them to stay in longer. This means a steady paycheck and decent home life, except that as the newest pilot in the unit Stan is at the top of the list to deploy if the squadron gets sent downrange. It further acts as a disincentive to those who would like to do the mission, but are unwilling to sacrifice a decade of their time in the event they don't like the lifestyle. However, Army aviation should not be compared with the other military branchesnot least because of the widely varying costs of producing pilots. My talk with Stan covered all of these, so my next question was, How long were you planning on being involved in military aviation then? You'll be a WO for three-ish years. Suddenly, Active Duty isnt looking that bad, right? Signal: The IT department of the Army. There are more than enough fully qualified CAREER ENLISTED personnel from the 5 services, waiting in the wings, so to speak, to apply for the WOFT program. Thereafter, the ADSO incurred pursuant to the Army Branch for ADSO Program will be served concurrently with any other non-statutory ADSOs. When I got selected it was a 60/40 split between street to seat and prior. Change flight school where primary flight training is done by civilian contractors via fixed wing. ADSO is completed. So here I am, considering branching aviation when all of a suddenBAM! ADSO stands for Active Duty Service Obligation. Anyway, I just clocked 20 years, 5 1/2 years of that has been spent in the Middle East and for what? However, many of my buddies werent sure yet if they were willing to commit to a decade of service in exchange for a pilot slot. Yes, life there is fantastic, and its important to get there as quickly as you can because Seniority is Everything. While I continue to assert this is far better than becoming an Active Duty pilot through the USAF Academy, ROTC, or OTS, I worry that Ive done people a disservice by making the Active Duty pilot career path seem too unattractive. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. While there are some top performers that will elect to pursue the branch because they plan on a career from the beginning, there are far more that may be hesitant or undecided about committing to a decade of their professional lives to a niche field when they're only 22 or 23 if they aren't already passionate about everything aviation. Now that Im older and wiser, one of my many side-hustles is working as an Admission Liaison Officer for the USAF Academy. Lasting solutions must come in the form of quality of life and quality of service improvements. (USASOC) Commissioned and warrant officers who enter flight training starting in October will incur a 10-year service obligation once they become rated Army aviator s, according to guidance. However, on the surface, we see that Stans plan is likely to get a pilot to the airlines a couple of years before his peers. Branch of Choice: Your BRADSO obligation runs consecutively with your flight school ADSO and your commitment will run out to about the 10 year point. First, as we just mentioned, you only have to worry about one job flying one aircraft for Uncle Sam. Although its less common to get more than 6-12 months of your ADSC forgiven under this program, that still gets you off Active Duty sooner than expected. I remember similar drama during my Fourth Class (freshman) year at the USAF Academy as we were forced to sign a paper accepting a similar ADSC increase in case of getting an Air Force pilot slot. . I dont agree with this decision at all but mean forcing people to stay helps retention because you know, they are forcing you. I will still try to join but maybe that's because I'm retarded, Guess my packet will go back on the share drive. In the same discussion about retention data, Brig. Not difficult for the Army in finding 400 additional career minded E-3 to E-7 for the WOFT program if need be. What is everyone's take on the new ADSO for aviation? I bet less than 300 WOFT selected are non prior service on a annual basis. Holla at yo boy and lemme know what y'all are thinking. Having been out of college for at least 5 years at the start of UPT, its more likely that Stan will have a spouse and kidsmaking the very busy year at UPT even more challenging. A Talk With The US Armys Underground Warfare Expert. A large number of aviation personnel have a lot of passion and dedication to the mission, but that can only last so long when your life consists ONLY of the mission. im hopeful the army can fix this problem ASAP. . The Ultimate Military Pilot Career Path is to get hired directly by a Guard or Reserve unit and let them send you to UPT. However, I dont think its worth passing up a nearly guaranteed Active Duty. The impact on warrant officers may be as severe as the impact on would-be aviation lieutenants. If you quit during flight school you are still obligated to fulfill the ADSO and reassigned to the needs of the Army. These figures do not include initial trainingthey solely account for the time and cost associated with the platform-specific training. As a Guard or, There are also a lot of great flying opportunities that you can only do on Active Duty. Not sure. Increased ADSO Effect on Recruiting and Retention One problem with pilots is that we don't age well (I'm not a military aviator, just a private pilot) so there would be an issue of reaching a physical condition expiration date at some point. As several others have said, this policy fails to address the root problems high OPTEMPO, poor quality of life, irrelevant mandatory training, etc. Before trying to add more pilots, or change quality of life (which I don't think they're trying to do), they should look at leveling the demands on pilots within the ranks. I have done more CTC rotations and in general "useless bs" since being aviation than I ever did infantry. The Army is the only service which allow non college graduates in being Officers and pilots as we know. Some of the impacts may have directly affected [Soldiers] ability to pursue [their] goals of working for the commercial sector, especially the airlines.. The Army will continue to honor all GRADSO contracts for officers from YGs 2006-2013. junglerekon 2 yr. ago The TIG start isn't official yet. The, exists specifically for Active Duty pilots willing to make an early commitment to continue their service in the Guard or Reserve. That's what the Army was counting on. Im in shape, arguably intelligent, and have at least ten good years of service left in me yet an age waiver will not be considered for aviation for either OCS or WOCS. COVID has taken care of the airline hiring problem for the next three to five years, making the issueance of an increased ADSO redundant. However, has he really had a better home life than them? More than likely the Lts selected will be lower on the Order of Merit List. U.S. ARMY RECRUITING COMMAND > In-Service Opportunities > U.S. Army NG will have 10 years. The service should find a better way of addressing its shortage of pilots. Is it only for new guys coming in? More money for tents and rifles, I suppose. The earlier you can Palace Chase, the less difference there is between a regular Active Duty pilot and someone following Stans plan. The increased ADSO shows that senior leaders fundamentally do not understand the issues, and it will do nothing to address the attrition as the years go on. You can post now and register later. A Leaders Guide to Conducting Research Staff Rides, Report to Congressional Armed Services Committees on Initiatives for Mitigating Military Pilot Shortfalls, Government Accountability Office reported, Creating a Sea Change: TF 76/3, Adaptation, Experimentation, and the Joint Force, Podcast: The Spear The Strategic Lieutenant, Book Talk: Urban Warfare in the Twenty-First Century, Frank Sobchak Joins MWI as Chair of Irregular Warfare Studies, Announcing the Modern War Institutes 202223 Senior and Research Fellows, Call for Submissions: Civil-Military Relations and Modern War, Call for Applications: MWIs 202223 Fellows Program. Even if the increase in commitment lowers the civilian WOFT applicantnumbers, the in house career Enlisted pool will fill the void. C-17 formation from the ramp: https://www.dvidshub.net/image/6100141/c-17-air-drop. 10 years after flight school graduation. I feel that part of the problem is that the Army assessed too many senior NCOs into flight school, which helped get them into this box that they are in. I greatly appreciate the responsiveness of this community and the depth of feedback y'all have provided, but I want to be sure that the consensus expressed herein is not just the culmination of a bunch of bad experiences but is actually a systemic issue. PDF Selection of Army Aviation Officers and Warrant Officers Reading your first paragraph and skimming the rest I couldn't agree more. Stan figured that even spending 5 years in a non-flying job, this track would make him a military pilot well below the USAFs current age limit (33 years old), and would actually get him to the airlines sooner than his Active Duty pilot peers. Stans Active Duty pilot peers would have spent 8-11 years since graduating from college flying for the military full time. I was enlisted for 6 before I moved over. The Army says it needs the UH-72 for training because it teaches the use of glass cockpit and other advanced technology. The Armys blind spot with retention data is further highlighted by comments made by Brig. By collecting data and then improving quality of life and quality of service with targeted retention initiatives, the Army will not just increase retentionthe positive changes will increase the appeal of serving as a pilot in the Army, and recruiting will increase as well. Army Aviation Leaders should. Looks like 11-11.5 year total commitment. Warrant Officers | goarmy.com Anything and everything related to or affecting US Army Aviation. As a good mentor, I knew to ask lots of questions and take the time to dig down to the primary factors motivating this line of thinking. Fly them that way through the instrument phase, and then conduct a rotary wing transition. This is doubly applicable for aviation formations. arent bad, and patriotism also factors in for most of us. Theres no debating that the military has a near monopoly on the most exciting aviation available to humankind. Check this post out on Reddit:https://www.reddit.com/r/Armyaviation/comments/gxcx3o/10_year_adso_is_official/. This mindset is far from universal, but its prevalent enough that the Academy actually had pilot slots go unfilled a few years ago! I transitioned from infantry to aviation and have had off-and-on heartache with it ever since. A regular Active Duty pilot career path. positivism constructivism or interpretivism and pragmatism army aviation 10 year adso. "We probably need to look at it and adjust it a . The U.S. Army Aviation Center Survival Escape Resistance and Evasion (SERE-C) course. Especially if they view retention as a big enough problem to justify an additional 4 year commitment from aviators. I dont think I wouldve taken the 10 Year ADSO, considering that Id just now be ALMOST complete with 10 yrs aviation service. There are many complexities in these advanced helicopters, which translates to increased costs in flight hours, maintenance, and training requirements, Kearns said. The program offers an incentive to remain on active duty in aviation service for either 3 or 5 years, beginning at ADSO expiry or contract approval date, whichever is later. Branch of Choice: Your BRADSO obligation runs consecutively with your flight school ADSO and your commitment will run out to about the 10 year point. That's my 2 cents. But ifonline discussions are any indication, this ADSO will turn away a lot of prospective pilots. The 10-year service obligation is the result of a numbers-related calculus related to Army manning and will not address the problems that make Aviators leave. Although 10 years of Active Duty feels like a long time, its not that much longer than the alternatives. I'm retiring in two years and it's not even to go to the airlines! This means keeping up with at least two airplanes and dealing with two potentially very demanding bosses. This could be a few weeks TDY, or a multi-month move. Although its easy to feel stuck on Active Duty, there are also options for getting out early. Think they will pay the bonuses and flight pay like the other branches? Additionally, because of rules that the Federal Aviation Administration has put into place over the last decade that make hiring civilian pilots difficult, many regional airlines have created rotary-wing transition programs that substantially ease the transition for Army helicopter pilots. The Army increased monthly pilot pay from a maximum of $850 per month to $1000 per month, offered $35,000 annual bonuses to qualified warrant officers who extend for three years, and reduced combined training center rotations to two per twelve-month period for each combat aviation brigade. Brennan Randelis a captain in the United States Army and is the former commander of Alpha Company, 4-2 Attack Battalion stationed at Camp Humphreys, South Korea. Sounds great! In congressional testimony it was stated that at that time (2019) around 40% of the pilot population was within 3 years of being retirement eligible. If you graduate after 1 Oct 2020 expect a 10 year service obligation. Deployments are great flying, but terrible on a family. While Stans Option #3 seems to bypass a lot of this, lets look at what hed have to do: This plan assumes that Stan can get hired by a Guard or Reserve unit at this point. Display as a link instead, Army is trying to get payback for their costs, but that will be increasingly hard to do if airlines are hiring. The security accrediation level of this site is Unclassified FOUO and below. Such changes may affect my status, The same goes for great deals like going to Test Pilot School, flying the E-11A BACN, and much more. There is no down time, no time to build family and relationships and the team. This means that a BCT that goes to a CTC once a year always demands CAB support. I am planning on staying in anyway but that 10 year also looms big if everything sucks and you hate it. However, he missed out on that Ultimate Military Pilot Career Path and is concerned about a 10-year UPT ADSC. 10 is nuts. Your link has been automatically embedded. Cadets, who have not experienced the Army for even one day as an officer, are now asked to commit up to eleven years for the opportunity to fly for six yearsif they are luckywhile spending the rest of that time on staff, in professional military education, or in broadening assignments. The Army, by contrast, could only say that Army senior leaders recognize there are growing civilian opportunities for Army pilots. Comments will be moderated before posting to ensure logical, professional, and courteous application to article content. New Army directive will reset aviator warrant officer date of rank These trips have to be funded at his own expense and would require him to use leave that wont be available for family trips. Additional Duty Safety Officer Course brings added - United States Army Active component warrant officer strength, as of October 1, 2018 (Source: Report to Congressional Armed Services Committees on Initiatives for Mitigating Military Pilot Shortfalls), Two main variables affect pilot strength in the military: production and retention. Ive also called this the, Stans idea (Do 5 years as an engineer, then fly for the Guard or Reserve), Looking at these side by side, its clear why #1 is the Ultimate option. If hed gone to UPT right after college, its more likely that hed get a lot of his deploying done before his kids were that old, or even before they were all born. There is no reset. So the recruitment piece has not historically been our challenge, it has been capacity and production. But what if the new ADSO invalidates this assumption? If you love the flying youre doing, and you have a squadron of good people, any assignment can be a great experience, no matter how busy you are. Although I like to poke my Active Duty friends in the chest by asking, What do you love about military aviation that you cant also get in the Guard or Reserves? Ill admit that there are some benefits to Active Duty military service. Just to end it and walk away.. victorious..?