This is the first year I have spent more than 2 years at a level (L61) and still not gotten a promotion. At a basic level, in a company the size of Microsoft, the higher you go, the less you contribute individually and the more you contribute by your impact on an organization - hiring the right people, setting clear and correct goals, driving alignment and execution. During that time I had two good to great managers. Just like a lot of folks have a fetish to be managers even when it is against their natures.Having said this, consider which is better: a) Rushing through the levels and to be stuck in 64 for ages (to be Kim'd is especially painful here) - think Sarah Palin orb) Going through the levels at a healthy pace, getting far deep into the salary ranges that will assure higher pay when the new levels come. There is no better investment at Microsoft for tuning your career. If you find a boss who likes the kind of work you can do, follow him/her wherever they go. We had a strategic plan for getting me the visibility with the higher-ups that I needed.My promotion to Level 65 during the last annual review period was clearly the hardest. Look closely, and you'll probably find that this person is working symbiotically with someone else who masters those skills while lacking others.YES, there are people who've been promoted because they've simply "been there" for a long time. Unless you know for sure that your boss's answer is an immediate "Absolutely!" As for asking for promotions, I disagree that you must always be asking. Ultimately, I decided to leave the company. The "how" now has broader impact. then you're really off in the weeds.Think of the guy in the other company, the guy who is building something that competes with you, with your team. I changed 3 groups at Microsoft. how to check hall sensor on samsung washer; marriott grande vista grande cove menu; what happened to josh's partner bill on moonshiners; are goldfish crackers good for an upset stomach Your lead. Then follow Mini's advice and you should be all set. RIF in the SQL team? This is usually how teams start to rot from the inside. don't make enemies), change jobs about once every 3-4 years, and do your job reasonably wellfor a decade. When someone else is waiting on you for something, don't be the reason they can't get their shit done.4. L63 guys are supposed to influence their entire skip level org. (2): Wow, thanks for the early + great feedback. They will have thought this out. You can each help each other.I've gone from 59 to 65 so far, but maybe what worked for me won't work for you. . Taking the easy escape out like that, you are more likely to get into the same situation at other companies. If you were in the running your manager would have told you / asked for ammunition by now. Former is work of many years and long nights and proven track record while later is basically your ability to bullshit through 6 interviews. Hi,Now that the Annual review is approaching, I wanted to seek tips on justification putforth to the manager to move from L60-L61. Directors & Officers - microsoft.com Really inspiring. You havent [sic] seen nothing [sic] yet. What advice do you need? When it comes to where you actually rank and what you get paid that part is all that matters. The Making of an Expert: in the great Harvard Biz Review article of this title the author debunks the myth that experts are born, rather than made. During the start-up boom, I considered leaving. Don't obsess over what is in front of you. @No! I work in MSN and we still have no way to know the levels of our peers. Raymond V. Gilmartin 3,4 Former Chairman, President, Chief Executive Officer, Merck & Co., Inc. W. Reed Hastings 3 In particular I am at 64 for quite some time. So if you want a promotion and don't get it: drop everything you are doing now and start working on your promotion, i.e. Will some new person to the team who shows high growth potential push you aside even though you've been doing really solid work for years?Sometimes I wish it worked like an experience bar in a video game where you can clearly see when you will "ding". Apple's about to ship Snow Leopard with no new features. When does that year start? Not only do I have a much more interesting job with much less BS, I make more money as well. And, ironically, some titles make your manager automatically have to adjust your level after a certain time, in order to comply with certainly HR guidelines.- Buy your principal a coffee, hear everything, and dont follow everything. Once you identify those things scream about it by sending email with problem and solution and offer leadership to eliminate that imperfection. I made sure I was the guy you wanted to call when the server crashed in the lab with a crazy callstack and no repro.Second, OWN the features. Level 61 - overseas. What to do?The remaining is either a) absorb into other org (say A)b) if A doesn't need testers, then VP will instruct them to find another position in 6 weeks. the answer is simple - take on more. Its above level 64 that things get tough, but getting to 64 isn't difficult. Salesmanship is extremely important. Then they start pinging the manager on why and putting pressure on them to do something, move them up or out. The way to get to a higher level is to increase the scope of your contributions.In our group (somewhere in STB), L63 seems to begin with having at least 2 reports. Finally, take heart and dont become too discouraged if this is taking a little longer than it seems like it should. Keep your mouth shut most of the time (i.e. As for my own history, successful strategies have followed 3 major buckets:From 59 --> 62 (I started as a 10 in the old system) I simply kicked ass and took no prisoners. I've seen L65's who can't own a cardboard box, let alone a room. I've been 3.5 years at 62 and re-orged every year in mobile.Any ideas on how to carry greats results of one role into another through a re-org. In fact, every boss I've had has told me that I was the most frustrating employee they've ever had, mostly because I ignore half the things they ask me to doAnyhow, here's my advice: do a good job.That's it. If I was 65/66 material, why did they wait until I gave notice to offer me the promotion? Thanks to Mini for the great information. Avoid long-winded multi-point e-mails, boil down your points as succinctly and efficiently as possible. We have covered both technical and management track at Microsoft. It's a matter of human nature for most people not to want someone else to pass them up. Like another poster, I was a 64 who hit the "65 wall" after 10 years at MS. I would get vague directives like you need to be the thought leader or you need to improve your system knowledge. So yes, Mini's list should get you to 63 anywhere. You might have the Microsoft Senior Career Stage Profile in front of you all marked up and broken into more sections in OneNote, but which ones matter most to your team? It's probably true that there's more to the story and that they actually have important skills that matter. For some teams - especially those like Office with few departures release-to-release resulting in level compression - that's a rough bunch. If you get caught in a review and someone hits a fastball by you and you stumble, the people above you suddenly have fears that you might stumble when they and you are in front of the person who controls their careers. If you have a good manager he/she will ensure the relevant peers know all about it. I drove my 59-62 agenda with an iron fist and it didn't matter so much that I didn't play well with others or work to help other teams who were struggling.I became a manager during that time and had a year of major hiccups while trying to break through to 63 -- all of a sudden the fact that I was a unilateral force was working *against* me and not for me. Wouldnt my manager get annoyed if I try to go over him to get myself know to VP? What got you here ain't gonna get you there. And do you anticipate what happened when I made the next move to Dev Manager position? It varies greatly from manager to skip.The hardest point for me to bear is that I am young, capable of doing so much more, and absolutely dying to do more. Continue to do so until you've slapped yourself silly to the point that you're not complaining about how other folks must just be connected or political or adept at the finer art of buttock tongue massage. That is a great post Mini. If youre working individually there is an upper limit on how much you can accomplish since there are only 24 hours in a day some of which must be devoted to eating, sleeping, and other bodily functions. Great post and comments. I asked them direct questions about what I needed to do to get the next promotion. In the beginning, I volunteered for these tough areas that no one else wanted and over time, my brand became the fix it guy. Achieving Senior Level 63 at Microsoft - Blogger I was always righteously indignant when I encountered asshats and incompetence and I would rail against the losers to anyone who would listen, and then I would do whatever it took to drive my agenda through to completion.I focused 100% on producing vast quantities of superior quality work -- which endeared me to my management chain and opened up a crap-ton of doors at those early levels. That's the easy way out. Absolutely. I would lay some level of accountability with management as well, though. Senior level executive excelling at increasing operational efficiencies, improving . I'd like to hear some more experiences from MCS. I'm an SDE, so a large part of my time in the product cycle is spent fixing bugs. Now read over your answer. Amazon So a sub role at L61 = corp L63 and vice versa.So from a sub perspective:L58 and below are relatively junior roles where you have zero influence outside of meeting your commitmentsL59 -> L60 is a tougher jump. At this point many people will ask how can I influence others if Im not their manager? This way I can be in a better position to show that I am a "absolutely!" Many senior people, even VPs read this blog. In general, people are not leveled, jobs are. For example, some are principal individual contributors that just stayed for too long in a group and became essential, but now want to move on and cannot do that, either because their skills are obsolete or because they simply cannot go to a new startup team at such high level without any management responsibility, and they are untested managers. Make them successful at their job. Bowl Leader. I'm there. Promotion to 63 happened to me 2 years ago when I helped ship Office 2007. Over 20 years of experience in professional services including, architecture, corporate real estate, and integrated facility management, operating at a global and regional level. When your manager finally ask you to do X, you'll be nodding your head and saying, "yeah, totally, and here's my progress on X." Specifically, what did they accomplish, and what contributions do you see them doing to justify their promotion? Understand that promos aren't an exact formula. So, focusing on the customer instead of the competition is "incoherent blithering?" If you can learn to do this you become incredibly valuable.5. If you have potential and luck then you can achieve promotion velocity of one level every 18 months.Finally, heres my advice for who aspire for L62->L63 jump: Look around. The hardest work item on his place was an expression parser that the team's architect wrote for him. Why? Moved to a role where I could see headroom and also where I could set specific commits and accountabilities with the GM, which I then exceeded and moved to L63 in '04. . L7 equals L64 or L65. I think one of the things that is frustrating is how opaque the promotion system really is. If you can make the argument about the job - and you're in a position of strength, obviously harder now than in years past, you can make the case. Amazon There's a need to ooze authority in a way that is comforting to the person above you responsible for your career. Microsoft is a Technology Giant and has been the biggest Technology Company in recent years. It's a knife fight to 63. All of my experience is in the product development groups at MS (dev/test/pm) so my observations may not apply elsewhere. New Senior Director Human Resources jobs added daily. Boeing, Go to company page Same applies if you started your career in Test. Experienced sales manager with skills in strategy, lead of direct reports, developing sales forecasts, products pricing and launching new products to the marketplace.<br>Proven abilities to manage key account relationships and large-scale projects.<br>Experienced in presenting to executive senior management, meeting with customers at CxO level and coordinating salesmen's Activities.<br><br . Microsoft, Go to company page This number represents the median, which is the midpoint of the ranges from our proprietary Total Pay Estimate model and based on salaries collected from our users. on this one. Sad but true Mini et al addressed this with the descriptions of the distinguishing traits you need to develop and demonstrate. L66 would be Principal or Sr Director. If it doesn't, what could you add to make that work? I have to agree with a few that have posted already. Promotion budgets of 65 and above has been kept intact.Promotion and raise budgets are going to be quite tight everywhere, not just at MS. I haven't talked to anyone internally that has anything good to say about it. I'm just going to try and emphasize a few points here:* As mentioned by many folks, it is important to own your career and hence plan you promotion, discuss it with your manager, and most importantly follow up on it. Perhaps someone can explain to me how you get successfully promoted without your boss's support. You should be able to show the path to a goal, especially to collections of people who do not report to you. (Senior Project Manager), with 63 (Senior Project Manager) level earning average salary of $247k along with $38k worth of stock options. Will <> reach Level 63 during their career? Woow. Thanx for it. Your response is private Was this worth your time? Why cannot we have our address title reflect our level as everybody else in the company?Not giving quite as snide a response as the previous posterAsk your management. I've been hearing some stealth layoffs around the SQL and BOSG groups, around 70+ people were given 6(?) There's a reason why they had the kind of brand loyalty that Microsoft can only dream of.Success in business comes from serving your customers, not about beating your competition. Will there be budget? check the ego out, ensure that people around you (the whole team is successful), create the best results possible and your promotion wont be far away. Unless you plan to stay in the same org the rest of the time at MS. You have to enjoy it, or else it'll come across as insincere, and you'll do a half assed job. It works like this: Senior (L64,63) - works on tactical efforts, writes code or works on projects autonomously, collaborates with others "Next, I believe this post will most likely be useful for those who entered MS as intern/college hires. Yes, "soft skills" count.I'm pleased that someone said it.There are a collection of skills that are difficult to quantify that are absolute necessities to succeeding at higher levels. And what is happening now trying to move up after becoming a Dev Manager? Up to that point the "what" you accomplish can get you pretty far and you get some wiggly room on the how. The last thing I would ever think about is what my boss thinks of me; I just don't care. You want to test more cases than he does, you want to build something that draws users to what you're doing more than to his.You're never competing with your manager. My work affected hundreds of developers in our org. YES, there are people who've been promoted due to politics. It's a knife fight to 63. Also known as executive-level, senior-level seniority requires a high level of experience, knowledge and responsibility within a company. I'm not looking for any off-topic comments let alone woe-be-me comments - remember that slap thing? Ugh, not good, not good at all.>Finance is cutting 10% of work force. Think about why they're able to do that.-jcr. Promotion budgets of 65 and above has been kept intact.Can somebody from HR confirm this?If true then this post is quite untimely. Executive Vice President and Chief Human Resources Officer. Don't just take a L63+ role because of the level. Strategy and Product Leader for an omni-channel team encompassing blended physical-digital experiences that combine personalized services with customer relationship strengthening across 400- centers. >> You forgot "never ask for a promotion".That's the absolute worst advice one can give to a Microsoft employee, IMO. How do you get the right job/work that will make the impact. I'm not even thinking about level 63 at this point. Got lucky on that one!!!! But it is also clear that there are places at Microsoft where these skills are not required until higher.I have a 62 test somehow make it to dev with mediocre dev skills, social skills limited to indifference or hostility, who managed to delegate most of the hard work to a smart kid hired to work with him and he made it to 63. I was in a group that was reorging constantly and there were frequent management changes, so it took all of the political skill I'd developed over the years to focus my GM on giving me that fucking promotion.